First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Fig. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. Clear editor. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. This is. I started construction with the lower at 80%. Well, there are several reasons for this. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. I'll have to get measurements later. These two pics right here, and the height difference. Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. You are using an out of date browser. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. Thanks shooterrex. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. I read through the threads dealing with this issue. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. A friend with a lower that started at 80% also had the same problem as I do and fixed his by shifting his mag catch up 0.050". Note the different rear opening. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but I'd first like to solve the feed problem. JavaScript is disabled. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! It did. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. The main concern is the failure to feed. What measurements do you have on your lower? The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. Excellent work with the pics and details. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. Thanks for the reply. I can manually push the bolt catch tab in to raise the catch higher. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. I have both just to keep ammo separated. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. Similar occurences? I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? Could i just have faulty mags? Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. Display as a link instead, As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. A new one can be sent upon request. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. Your link has been automatically embedded. Just did this, no difference. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". Cookie Notice 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. Here's a photo showing the mags. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. Paste as plain text instead, The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. edit: i just got them. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? Has anyone seen this? Upload or insert images from URL. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. JavaScript is disabled. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. All Rights Reserved. It was initially 0.323 deep. Pasted as rich text. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. The issue is with bolt lock back. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. I'll try and grab my camera. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. It's a whole lot of details. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. "And here remain with your uncertainty! IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. Because both symptoms exist, it seems that the components within each receiver may be too far from each other which leads me to suspect that the interface between the upper or lower is too thick. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. Is it the length of the plunger? What corresponding dimensions do you have? So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. One new winner* is announced every week! I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. They all functioned fine. We have heard reports these malfunctions often happened with Wolf, Tula, and Brown Bear ammo. Suggestions? :??? check out the. The Fix: 1.) If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. View attachment 25288. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. Hope this helps. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. I don't and I didn't . honest. and might have several still in the packaging. I deepened the hole to 0.480. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. No need to answer that last question. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. Could the magazine be too low? This is one of my pistols. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. Hey, everyone. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. I deepened the hole to 0.480. We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. One new winner* is announced every week! In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. If so, it would cause both symptoms. I suspect yours will be higher than mine. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . Next up is damage to the SCAR. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. JWardJune 15, 2020 in Building a .308AR. 1.4k Fig. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever so slightly and drag on the bolt lugs, which results in significant damage over time. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. JavaScript is disabled. i have thermolds, and usgi mags and the rest of them work perfectly.. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 So far so good. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. #5. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. Some people used a 9mm bolt catch, others shaved out the bolt catch area on the mag itself. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. I deepened the hole to 0.480. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. Some rifles are just finicky. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. It was initially 0.323 deep. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. TSiWRX. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Think it could be magazine springs? I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. You can post now and register later. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. How is it though that my. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. Measure the depth of the hole, first. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. For more information, please see our You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. You cannot paste images directly. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. Depth of the hole? By I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine.